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Re: Girls in Gaming

#13341399
i've been playing mmos for quite some time because my parents allowed me free reign of my internet life and i'm not sure if that ended up being a positive or negative. i've been stalked because i outed myself as a girl on certain games (WoW, runescape, maplestory) and men have said vile things to me for absolutely no reason. i've made some awesome friends that are guys so i'm not going to say that my time was ALL awful but i want to stress that the experience as a girl gamer is inherently different than that as a male gamer and that's important. it's hard to explain the reason why i almost always choose a male avatar in mmos now to friends who haven't experienced the harassment or rape threats.

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13341684

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Recently, a Korean teenager showed some male gamers how good she was and the guys in question lost their sh*t.

Like one guy threatened to kill her just because she was better at a game than he was! Why? What purpose does that serve? It doesn't make him look cool, it makes him look like an asshole. And she's a teenager! Why on Earth would you send death threats to a TEEN!? Like that is another huge problem. If you're both a girl and you're younger, men think you're an easy target or something

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Re: Girls in Gaming

#13341706

OP was from a few months ago but this topic is really worth discussing, so I hope it's ok if I put my two cents in.

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My friends irl whom I often game with are generally quite courteous and don't make sexist jokes (at least not around me or any other female friends). Perhaps they realize how asshole-y it makes them sound when they enjoy humor at the expense of someone else based solely on their gender. After all, a lot of my male friends have younger/older sisters, haha! Maybe this plays a part in making them respect the women in their lives.

So I truly appreciate that. Besides, I know that I pick the right friends, people whom I can trust and enjoy spending time with.

There's no doubt that a vast number of men are quite disrespectful (to say the least) towards females, and especially when it's related to gaming... Hell, this topic can be spoken about for so long and we'd never finish.

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I, too, wish to be better at games I love so I don't feel this sense of inferiority/holding back the team. Gotta represent. Show em that girls can do anything guys can do.

Sometimes in League of Legends, a guy will somehow deduce that I'm a female (I guess??) and be super extra sweet and nice, say they like me, and even ask to be my adc for duo queue. Hahah, wow. How do they do it? (I main Thresh.)

Glad to be able to hear the thoughts of other females in gaming though. And on Roli, to boot!

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13342815

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I do think it's getting a bit better but I'm still a bit wary about telling other players my sex unless I know them. Because there are some guys who either stop playing because they're playing with a girl or they begin to focus on your solely. It's also really creepy because some guys will start hitting on you or make really disgusting jokes.

But I have met a lot of really nice male players. I do think it's getting better. Slowly but surely.

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Re: Girls in Gaming

#13344030

Same here. I definitely try to avoid saying anything about my gender ever, and usually masquerade as a male player.

If someone refers to me as a "he" in a game (either in the "androgynous" sense or because they actually assume I am male), I never correct them. It feels like interactions are more casual and streamlined when the other players aren't preoccupied over the fact that you may be "female".
Because yeah, then the weird flirting sometimes happens. LOL

Yup! Slowly but surely, society is making progress towards respecting women and treating everyone fairly, regardless of gender. We just want to play video games!

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13356885
"Girls who play games, do you play games with other people online? Do you have a "group" you tend to hang out with when you game? How do you feel treated often?

Guy who play games, what is your idea on girls in your game group? Fun is obviously a big thing in gaming and hanging out online but how do you joke around in that situation? Do you make sexist jokes? Have you considered how it affects the girls around you?

The reason I want to discuss this, is because I find often that no matter what group I migrate too, often the guys tend to make sexist jokes and laugh it off. If you get upset it's, "Why are you taking it so seriously?" While it's true I'm often not as good as the guys I know at gaming, I also take a lot of flack for it, even with things I am good at. My difference in goals in games also earns me a lot of flack as well as my choice in games. Like in Minecraft, I really appreciate the aesthetics of building a unique and functional, decorated home-base. Where as the guys call it frivolous and expect a box with some chests in it. "

I wonder if your question towards men might be a little loaded. Nobody is going to be coming on here like "AWWW YEAH! WE JOKE ABOUT SMASHIN' DAT PUSSY ALL DAY LONG. OSHI-WADDUP BOOOOOI!". :P I think it might encourage a little more diverse conversation if you made the question waaaaaaaaay less accusatory. Remember, everyone always thinks that their actions are justified and the right thing to do. It's a little like asking "Hey, are you a dumb libtard obummer luvvin gay? Haven't you thought about personal responsibility or Jesus? Wanna come in and get bashed for your actions? Post here!".

But more relevant to the topic...

I *do* play games online. and IRL. I have a group I tend to hang out with to play games but I also play games publicly on occasion, but not very often. Usually I do the modern equivalent of a LAN party with friends.

Honestly, while I enjoy shooters, etc. I know I'm not very good at them and I have some concern that by playing online I expose myself to the ridicule of other players simply for being worse at the game. TBH, general douchbaggery to less skilled or experienced players has been a FAR bigger roadblock to me than sexism in videogames...
Sexism is just the icing on the "making this experience suck" cake, and is really not much different than sexism anywhere else from my experience. Sexism in gaming isn't really worse than any other male-dominated activity... It's exactly the same. Which is to say, it sucks a lot, but also girls deal with it any time they want to enter into a male dominated anything (which is the majority of things). Is it something I can work around? Naturally, of course I can. I work around it every day, even if I wish I didn't have to. So the sexism isn't any more of a roadblock to me in gaming than it is, say, when I walk down the street and get sexually harassed, or when I try to give advice on something in my profession and get dismissed for being female. There's no difference and I carry on walking down the street and pursing my career despite that. I would go into gaming, sexism or not... Except that even if you remove the sexism, I think the online gaming culture is immature, aggressive, unreasonable and filled with abuse for any player of inferior gaming skill. So why would I immerse myself in that?

I think sexism's gotten such a highlight in nerddom because we expect more out of gamers. Aren't they supposed to be nerds? Aren't they supposed to be highly intelligent, emotionally responsive, respectful, individuals who know the pain of disenfranchisement, bullying and discrimination? Aren't they supposed to be intellectually BETTER than the jocks and jerks outside of nerddom? Shockingly enough, sexism is still sexism, even when the people involved claim to be "better"... And I think that really ruins our faith in our gaming community in particular.

I also think that a major barrier to entry for most women when it comes to gaming is how foreign gaming can feel to a girl. I especially enjoy sandbox-style games or games with multiple paths for a goal where the theme is somewhat unclear. (Minecraft, Don't starve, Civ 5, city builders, Tycoon games, etc.) I think that's because even if you took every single game out there, removed all the sexist/rape jokes, put clothes on the women and swapped the male protagonist with a female one who looks just like you (as well as any love interests to your gender preference, etc), the writing, music, art direction, character interactions, even the gameplay were all designed by men for men. It can feel a little foreign sometimes to pick up a game and realize it doesn't speak to your needs in gaming. I mean, look, I love blasting demons in DOOM as much as any 90's kid and I will cheerfully take down Covenant in HALO along with the rest of them. But I burn out faster. I can only do this for maybe an hour while most of the men I know can blow up demons and aliens all day long. On the other hand, I can spend 498577236487990 hours building the Taj Mahal in Minecraft while they can only handle Minecraft as long as they're killing monsters to try to beat the Ender Dragon and win the game and finish the goals and then they're bored. This is especially true because gaming is a cerebral, problem solving, brain-building experience. Women and men have different brain structures, and gaming fulfills our brain's needs differently.

(I guess kinda like if you took a cheap women's romance novel and swapped all the relevant genders in the relationships, it would still probably not appeal much to men. There's almost nothing relateable for men there.)

Inside video games I make my own safe space. I host my own servers for games and carve out my own areas, sometimes through stone with a chisel, but it happens. (Incidentally, if anyone here is concerned about playing on a MC server that isn't a safe space, mine's a vanilla SMP and you're welcome to come play on it.) If I can't, I just play with friends only.

Outside of videogaming, I am lucky to have a safer space in board and card games. My partner owns and runs one of the most successful LGS(local game store)s on my side of town. There's NO sexism tolerated there. People who make sexist jokes or comments are told to stop immediately and never do it again. Multiple confirmed complaints results in a permanent eviction from the store. There's a half-way decent womens playerbase there for lots of games. It's a huge relief because I actually have found sexism in gaming IRL to be worse than sexism online, so it's a huge relief to be away from it. Online everything's anon, so who cares what some 12 year old idiot on the internet thinks. But when that person is face to face with you, it becomes a little more personal. I like to recount the tale of the one time (before my partner opened his shop, so at another, less scrupulous, LGS) I beat a pro-tour Magic: The Gathering player, playing the best deck in the game ($300ish) at a casual tournament once with a cheap $30 homebrew deck. He threw all of his expensive cards into his bag, loose, along with his equipment (mat, dice, etc), shouted about how he couldn't believe he just got beaten by a little girl (I'm 6' tall and 18 at the time), that he was so angry about it that he was quitting magic forever, and then he stormed out of the tournament without even telling the TO to drop him. (Not that the TO needed notification... The whole store saw his hissy fit.) That was kind of defining moment for me in gaming and I didn't attend another tournament again until my partner opened his store some 4 years later.

Now that my partner's shop is running, that's not a concern any more and it feels good to not have to deal with it any more.

Because of these combined efforts, I feel like gaming is becoming a safer space for me, personally at least. And I hope to help it feel safer for other girls too.

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13366147

☾¤¸¸.•´¯`•.¸*.:。 ★*゚



I've played video games all my life. Just recently, I was playing online and I was having a bad game so my teammates were getting mad at me. My username is "Miss Meowjesty," so I guess that draws some attention... but still, one of them called me out and said flat out, "you must be a girl, because you're playing like dog shit." And I was so furious, but I never respond. No matter how much it hurts on the inside I always have to hold it back. I have a right to have whatever kind of girly name I want online, without having to be discriminated against and people judging me based on my girlish name.
It sucks because we don't deserve that shit. How can you determine one's skill level based on gender??? It's ridiculous. I was so mad, and mad is an understatement.

Sometimes I get people who try to pick me up and cat call me through the internet, it's really inappropriate.
What do they get out of it? They just want something to blame? I really don't know.

Women are constantly being degraded, mistreated, and discriminated in the gaming industry. It makes me not want to play anymore because I feel that stress everytime I play a video game.


【 =◈︿◈=】

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13366164
I think so long as one has a fixed group in gaming that they could in some way consider friends, it's important to keep speaking up.
Yes, sexism is everywhere. Yes, it's ingrained into the game design from how female characters are designed and incorporated to how their male counterparts are, to how balanced gender is among the characters and how much sense it makes, to how marketing is done and to how people defend all those choices.

You're not going to convince pussydestroya69 in a random matchup of LoL, but you can speak up among your regulars, your friends whenever they make a remark or joke that you are uncomfortable with. If you don't succeed at at least making them more sensible to the issue and they continue now despite your requests for them to be more mindful, well, maybe it's worth considering how close you are to these people that can't respect your wishes or can't do so without some kind of attitude ("Oh, I'd love to say something now but X wouldn't like it, hahahahah").

In a guild I was in in FFXIV that required some voice chat, I decided to just point out when I thought a joke wasn't funny due to relying only on sexism, racism, nationalism (German group, European server = talking a lot of shit about the French players) , ableism, etc. or when they made shitty assumptions based on such.
Eventually they asked, in a pretty accusatory tone, if I "am from Tumblr".
I said yea and henceforth was their feminism expert and had to answer their questions regarding how they thought feminism wasn't needed anymore or how feminists only want the positives of equality but not the negatives, etc.
It only mildly helped, I think some other women in the group appreciated it at least. Others didn't, as they were more on the "one of the guys"-mindset I feel I've passed on the way to where I am now as a person.
The idea that being female is kind of lesser and it's better to also make the same sexist jokes and thus be less confrontational and more easily integrated into a largely male group... I understand where it comes from, I've been there, I just feel like I know better now, but alas.
They'd also kind of be arguing that it isn't much of a big deal, it's just jokes, they're just saying it. They're not sexist. They're not feminists either and the women also aren't feminists and it's such a dirty dirty word!
It was a shocker to them that I felt free to state that I am a feminist with no shame or such.

Regardless, when new members joined with the same old non-PC routine of jokes, it was more important that they have their fun than for the women in the group to feel welcome. No surprise then not many women frequented the voice chat, especially when certain male peers were online. HMMMMMMMMMM.
(I quit the group for such and other reasons, it just wasn't fun anymore.)



In single-player games I have unnecessary appreciation for games that have well-design, well-written female characters, because it's still such a rarity.
I wouldn't totally dismiss it when a game with good gameplay features just a bunch of men with just a damsel in distress, because it's an industry standard, but I am acutely aware of it and I will think at several points about how many of the characters definitely aren't defined enough by their gender to be required to be male... and be much more vocal on my support and appreciation for a game that gets it right.
People sometimes argue that if a characters gender, race or sexuality aren't vital to their personality, then why does it matter if they're a straight while male... while simultaneously starting a whiny movement about everything being so PC nowadays when a good game features more than the usual token POC, women or non-hetero people... almost like it matters to see oneself represented in a game...

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13366172
In this one game I play, there is the ability to marry another char. Only male x female marriages are allowed though because the game originates from a country where being homosexual isn't really...appreciated, I guess.

But that aside. I recently have been getting random guys whisper my character (which is like a private conversation) and they go like this:
"Hey"
Now you maybe think what's wrong with that? Well for me it basically is the beginning of a long array of questions. So I reply with a hey back ofcourse. Because I don't want to be rude.
"Are you a girl?"
Yeah my guess was right. Now I get why people ask this later on in a conversation. Since we all know that female characters tend to get the better wardrobe. So guys play girl characters. But if they ask it right after the "hey" then I know I'm gonna get bombarded with questions. But still giving the benefit of the doubt, so I reply with "yes". Now then there are a couple of questions that come in a random order.
"How old are you?"
"Where are you from?"
So I answer those questions. Sometimes they even skip the above questions and go straight to:
"You want to marry me?"

Now some might think what's so wrong with this? Well I have a couple of issues with it. Why does it matter whether I'm a real girl or not. In this game, as long as 1 has the male character and the other is a female character, the game allows you to marry. In one server, I've got both male and female characters and I married them together. So I basically married myself...because I freaking could :laughing:

But the fact that they need me to be a girl, ... that's already very alarming. Also the fact I don't know them except from a bit of the game and them not even bothering on giving a reply back on the same questions... I mean, if I ask how old are you, I usually provide my own age as well. The same with the where are you from question. It's only kind and gets rid of some of the ice.

I usually reply with a "I don't date online" and they immediately go "why". This makes me even more suspicious. Because what if I said yes to marrying? Divorcing a character costs real money unless the other person hasn't been online for ages. Then it can be done for free. I don't want to end up with someone I don't know who then expects me to do sex talk online because we're now "married".
Or even worse, they start asking for my Skype or kik. And they ask for pictures. And don't dare to send pictures of yourself that are clothed. Omg that's just the worst *input sarcasm* =.=" The amount of vile you get if you don't do the sex talking, or don't send the pictures ...

Now I never got as far as them throwing vile in my face, because I just blacklist them. Solves a lot of issues. But alot of my female friends had that happen to them. Many of them ended up quitting because they couldn't afford divorcing those chars.

Sorry but I had to say this little rampage cause it really annoys me.

YES I AM A GIRL AND I'D LIKE TO PLAY GAMES IN PEACE WITHOUT GUYS BEING JERKS! Thank you :smiley:

Now that I've said that: there are also a lot of guys who don't do any of this and aren't jerks and perfect gentlemen! Just being kind and friendly without any of the bad stuff. But like they say: the few ruin it for the many. Or is that just a saying from my country?

BTW: I don't date online in games because it just brings a bunch of drama. All the drama and fights I've been in are a direct result of people getting jealous or whatever. I don't want drama. As a result: my game life in that particular game has been quite free of drama. :innocent:

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13366197
Aonther topic on this is the Sims community I wanne talk about. This however is girls v girls. The Sims is mainly aimed forwards white people. Many black simmers feel they are being left out and they wish there was more content available for them. White simmers then tell them to stop whining because it's just a game and they shouldn't feel entitled to anything. While at the same time those white simmers kept on crying about wanting toddlers and EA not listening.

Racism is a big thing in the Sims community and as soon as you tell white simmers (mainly girls) to stop being racist they cry and act like they are being bullied. While going on about how it's just a game.

The gaming community needs to get better but if it already starts with white woman vs black woman then there is a super long way to go.

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13366201
The reason why racism, bullying and sexism exists in games is because it exists in real life.
And it only exists in real life because parents model these things infront of their children even though they think they don't.

I had it happen in my past. My mom was a bit fatter than the average and other parents basically bullied her. Laughing at her and saying she was fat. My mom never really fully realised it, but I did. Why? Because kids saw their parents do it and I started to get bullied for being fat. Only, I wasn't fat. And there was a girl fatter than me and she didn't get bullied for being fat.

I don't know if you ever watched the anime Naruto. But it's the same exact thing. Naruto is shunned by the adults for the past. The kids see this behaviour but don't know why. So they shun him too not knowing the actual reason. Naruto ends up growing up feeling isolated. Ofcourse Naruto is about much more, but that's the psychology behind the character Naruto.

So if we could just stop all the sexism, racism and bullying in real life, our gaming community would improve. TONS!

Re: Girls in Gaming

#13373470
I've been told I have a rather masculine personality when playing online so it isn't immediately apparent that I'm female at first. So this lets me go under radar and be treated as a fellow gamer. But on some dating sites, I notice that guys tend to zero in on the "I play some games when I have time" description and try to quiz me over certain things (Who won the 4th LoL world championship? Which game is Hector from in the Fire Emblem franchise? Who's Gwynevere?, etc), showing a huuuge difference in treatment. I actually feel like the gaming community is getting a bit better in terms of equality. Gaming itself for girls is being more common. At the very least, the issue is being noticed. It just sucks to have those bad apples who have to sour the whole experience.

Personally, I feel like if those guys feel like it's okay to stay stupid shit as seen on this thread (marriage online, sexist jokes, being thirsty, etc), it's fair game for you to dish it out right back at them. I've been through many groups and I usually almost never get unwanted attention because of the way how I'll deal with those type of people initially to set boundaries.
This ends up making drama though since those
guys usually have the most fragile ego's.

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